nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Harriet)
[personal profile] nineveh_uk
I know that in terms of immediate personal threat, the despair that I feel right now is as nothing compared to that of my EU friends and colleagues, and indeed my friends and colleagues from beyond the EU who have been shown the foul xenophobia and racism of the UK, for make no mistake whatever other reasons might be spackled over the top this is sheer vile nationalism, but my sense of betrayal by my country and its politicians is absolute.

This need never have happened. This is a choice made not just by yesterday's voters, but by our political class. It is a choice that comes with an immediate cause, David Cameron's attempt to stave off UKIP at the last election, but it is a longer-term choice that comes from blaming every political ill on a nebulous European demon while systematically failing to address real grievances and driving people to think that the political establishment didn't give a shit for them. This last is sadly true, the terrible thing is that decades of misinformation mean people have targeted the wrong political establishment. If I believed in hell, I'd say Cameron, Gove, Farage, Johnson et al should burn in it. Add in Jeremy Corbyn, too, for an atrocious inability to do any sort of convincing Remain campaign. Unfortunately they're all going to be all right. It's the rest of us who will get hell.

On an immediate economic level I'm all right. My holiday spending will be curtailed*, but my employment protection is strong. If house prices crash, I will even benefit. But the place that I hoped I lived, and for someone who grew up under Thatcherism it was always only a hope, never a belief, is utterly gone.

*I feel incredibly fucking stupid for not thinking last night "book your European holiday now, anywhere at all". I know that this is trivial, but it adds to the surreal element of the morning's feelings.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-06-24 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
We're still in shock. It wasn't unexpected, but it turns out that expecting something and having it actually happen are emotionally two quite different things.

Does this mean Oxford's EU students now have to start paying overseas fees?

(no subject)

Date: 2016-06-24 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
The moment I read the headline at 6 this morning was not a good moment. I feel I'm partly in resigned despair and partly still in horrified disbelief.

Who knows? Not the current bunch, and certainly not in 2016-17 for new starters then, but we've literally no idea beyond the fact that we'll almost certainly lose a big chunk of EU research funding. I was at a meeting this afternoon of dazed and despondent people at which emergency plans were talked about and they basically boiled down to "tell panicking people they don't have to leave (yet), but we really haven't a clue what is going to happen."

Rather annoyingly, I have learned today that I could have had Irish citizenship because Dad is definitely entitled to it through his grandfather, but he'd have had to register it before my birth for me to inherit and I suspect that he wasn't aware of it, either. C'est la vie!

(no subject)

Date: 2016-06-25 07:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
But would you want to go and live in Ireland? This is the basic problem - as EU citizens, we were able to go and live in any country in Europe we wanted, with no bureaucracy involved and no additional costs. My main complaint was that after 15 years abroad, an EU citizen is effectively disenfranchised, being unable to vote in either their country of origin or their country of residence. Now you have to either live in the country you're a citizen of or jump through a whole bunch of hoops to be allowed to live elsewhere - and unless there are special bilateral treaties with Ireland changing that, it will apply to Irish citizens living in Britain, too.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-06-25 07:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I have absolutely no desire to go and live in Ireland! I suspect Dad's complete lack of enthusiasm for and connection with the place is why he hasn't got a passport. But I wouldn't mind having its passport if I could use it to go and live somewhere else. Suddenly things have got rather claustrophobic and the bunch of hoops is looking a pain for all.

I can get the theory on why countries don't allow non-nationals to vote, but since nationality and qualification varies so much on where you are from and where you move to, and thus who can become a citizen, you'd think there could be some sort of arrangement whereby an EU citizen who had lived in country Y for X years could obtain the right to vote separate from nationality. It's fair and it's common sense - after all, one of the complaints about 'immigrants' is that they haven't the investment in the future of a place because they don't vote. Well let them!

Fortunately there already is a bilateral treaty with Ireland! Under the Common Travel Area, predating freedom of movement, and with an interesting and rather informal history because it's a successful case of everyone knowing that there is a major interest in expediency over the issue, UK and Irish citizens are entitled to live and vote in all elections anywhere in either country as if they were a citizen. Of course the fate of the CTA is now another question...

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