nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Default)
[personal profile] nineveh_uk
Being a short fic attempting to address just one of the many issues handled ham-fistedly by Jill Paton-Walsh in The Attenbury Emeralds.

*



Gerald was dead, and the world had changed. They had left a weeping Helen in the hands of her daughter and taken a taxi the short distance from the Mayfair house to Audley Square. Harriet had spoken to the boys’ schools and arranged for them to come a day early for half-term and the funeral, but she had at present no serious worries in that direction. Gerald had been a kindly uncle, but he belonged, in mind if not hitherto in body, to a generation dismissed in the minds of boys as old men. She found Peter writing letters at the little table in the drawing room. He looked up as she entered and she crossed the room to kiss his temple before retreating to the chair in front of the unseasonable fire.

‘Have you ordered tea?’

‘What? No, I didn’t think of it.’

‘Then let’s have some now; I’m starving, and you might drink something.’

‘All right.’ He turned back to his papers, and Harriet picked up her notebook. She had long since learned not to be wounded by Peter’s retreat into himself on these occasions. She recalled her mother-in-law’s words of long ago, he is still in there, and he did, in the end, always come back to her. The letters needed to be written, and he would be better for feeling useful. She sent the maid for tea and muffins, a pleasure once more with the end of butter rationing.

The heavy door opened to admit Bunter bearing a silver tray laden with the usual teapot and associated paraphernalia, and plates piled high with muffins and cucumber sandwiches. Harriet recalled belatedly that lunch had consisted of a single biscuit.

‘Thank you, Bunter,’ she said, feeling suddenly exhausted. Peter had not turned round. Bunter laid a hand on his shoulder, and bent his head to murmur something ending in, ‘tea, your grace.’

Peter sat up as if he had been bitten, turning a distraught face to his valet.

‘Oh no, Bunter! Not you, too.’

Harriet said nothing. She remembered once before when Bunter’s words had made something real, my lady, now gone forever. Now he stood as implacable as Jane’s Mr Brocklehurst, a straight black pillar with its face like a carved mask.

‘Your grace,’ the voice not unsympathetic, but softly insistent. There could be, she understood, no resistance to the overwhelming tide. Canute, poor misrepresented man, had known that. Though it was like Peter to fight against the waves nonetheless.

‘But not yet, surely?’

The curved lips of the mask understood, but were unmoving. The strong fingers on the shoulder distorted the grey flannel. Tomorrow, the cloth would be black and the hand at his side.

Peter yielded reluctantly, inevitably, ‘At least not at home.’ And then more quietly, ‘Bunter?’

Harriet, watching silently, saw something shift behind the mask. A struggle was taking place, something happening she had never quite seen before, and then the mask dropped and there was only a man standing there, looking frightened and exhilarated and as old as he was, the mouth gone soft and uncertain, only the dark eyes still shadowed. His hand dropped from Peter’s shoulder and Harriet saw the fingers stiffen and forced straight again. Bunter, drawing breath and fixing his eyes straight ahead, looked so like a little boy nerving himself to recite that she couldn’t help smiling. He let out a breath, dropped his gaze to meet Peter’s, and said in a voice that could not quite conceal its own daring:

‘Peter?’
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-27 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penguineggs.livejournal.com
Not having read this one but having followed the on-list discussion (not afraid of being spoiled; the spoilers seem to have saved me a good ten quid, not to mention the wine or whisky I'd have needed to wash the taste away) I suspect the issues include the lack of any real impact of Gerald's death and the appallingly anachronistic use of first names between people of radically different class backgrounds.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-27 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
That would be about it. There is a vague reach at the question of what Bunter's going to call Peter now that the phrase he has effectively used as his name is no longer available (not that it is put like that), but it's badly fumbled and then totally dismissed.

Whisky. Wine is not enough. Paint-stripper would also work.

Ed. Not to mention how bloody patronising the book is to Bunter on the subject, who is presented as a silly fuddy-duddy contrasted with forward-looking Peter and Harriet.
Edited Date: 2011-01-28 09:44 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-29 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevie-carroll.livejournal.com
All the comments on this post have got me trying to remember whether I ever specified how Mre Ollerenshaw addresses and/or publically refers to Edward (privately she has some choice phases available). Ah well, once I'm over my computer issues I'll be able to review the relevant sections and see if I need to make any alterations.

From personal experience, there's often the option of not actually addressing the distinguished personage at all, and merely offering thanks for catching the naughty lambs, followed by a comment on the lovely weather and/or the state of the other 4,500 wooly creatures.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-27 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
As far as Paton-Walsh is concerned, the answer is "not at all, not even a little bit, not the slightest possible bit, and just to prove how manly and heterosexual they are, Bunter will get married in her first book to a woman who is a pale shadow of Harriet because he's following Peter's example." It's the most gratuitously "don't think of the slash!" panic ever.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 10:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
a woman who is a pale shadow of Harriet

And as Harriet herself is already a pale shadow of Harriet, it's no wonder that Hope Bunter really does come across as someone whose sole function is to be Bunter's beard.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-27 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dichroic.livejournal.com
That's not quite fair ("true" and "fair" not being the same here) - you know JPW *couldn't* have done that, not if she didn't want it stifled by the Estate.

But .... if not quite fair, this is far more truth than "Mervyn" from the younger generation.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-27 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
If she didn't like any restrictions that may have been placed upon her*, she could have chosen not to work under them. After all, I'm not doing anything like show Bunter imagining Peter having sex...

I think there were lots of ways that JPW could have addressed the names, the class issues, Peter going to inherit etc. She's not a poor writer - far from it - but she does handle them poorly in TAE.

*Were there any? I haven't heard it, but I wasn't interested in the subject when T,D was being written.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-27 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mobile-alh.livejournal.com
Ah. Much better. I didn't bother to read this book after my grave disappointment over Thrones and Dominations.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
You should probably keep it that way. I am hopelessly inquisitive, which is my downfall.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-03-12 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
No, your downfall is arrogance. Your opinions on far better writers than you will ever be are of no importance to me, apart from the annoyance they cause.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-03-12 08:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
*keels over laughing*

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellid.livejournal.com
I tried reading the first JPW Wimsey book and could tell almost to the word when her writing started and Sayers' ended. Couldn't stand it, never have read any of the others, and never will.

Some things should be left alone :(

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
This is infinitely worse than the first one, I fear.

Some things should be left alone :(

If they were unauthorised versions, I wouldn't mind - indeed I'd be glad to see them out there. It's the stamp of authority on something so much inferior, that also prevents access to the original material, that infuriates me.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellid.livejournal.com
Agreed on all points. For all his flaws, at least Christopher Tollkien took pains to print multiple drafts of his father's work, with annotations and explanatory notes. Why the Sayers estate didn't do something similar is beyond me - critics and scholars have known for years that Dorothy Sayers was much more than a mystery writer.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 10:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
10 out of 10 for effort, but I'm afraid even you can't convince me that Bunter, while in Peter's service, would ever have called him by his first name to his face (What he calls him in the privacy of his own head is his affair, of course). And I think upgrading from "my lord" to "your grace" would be comparable to Bush having to start calling Hornblower "sir" - suprisingly easy when it comes down to it. Certainly when DLS wants to take their relationship in directions unsanctioned by the class system - as when Bunter refers to Peter as a "bloody little fool" in Whose Body? - she doesn't do it by suggesting that they wish they could call each other Merv and Pete, but by harking back to their military service; Sergeant Bunter can allow himself liberties that plain Bunter cannot (so perhaps their pet names for each other, when cavorting in non-canonical fashion, are in fact Major and Sarge...)

Having said that, it's a really, really good take on how things might have gone, and gives due weight to the enormity of the shift.

I suppose part of my difficulty is that I don't think that the later Peter, as drawn by DLS, would actually have had any strong objection to assuming the dukedom. He is, as Harriet observes, reverting to type, and he leaves his own estate entailed. He's overcome his psychological difficulties with bearing responsibility, has got an awful lot keener on life in the countryside, has developed a new fondess and respect for family traditions (as evinced by the way he introduces Harriet to Duke's Denver) and is generally prepared to embody "England" - or at least the establishment parts of it - in a way that he wasn't when he was still young and vulnerable and needed his silly ass persona. In fact, the whole "ZOMG! Bunter must now call Peter your grace!" crisis seems to me a non-issue, that is only turned into one because JPW doesn't like the use of honorifics and Peter becvoming a Duke makes it harder, rather than easier, to just dump them.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I don't really believe it, either, certainly whilst Bunter is working for Peter. It's a professional relationship, and the fact that it is more than that below the surface makes maintaining the surface more, not less, important on both sides. The employer's statement of the Nanny, "We treat her like one of the family", usually means they take advantage.

I can contemplate a shift to a more informal relationship after Bunter retires, say at 70-ish, to a cottage or a flat of his own at Duke’s Denver. But it needs the change in the power relationship first.

The whole book is a series of one non-issue crisis after another. It's Gerald I feel sorry for.

(so perhaps their pet names for each other, when cavorting in non-canonical fashion, are in fact Major and Sarge...)
I think I am going to have to follow DLS on this and employ the intense use of "you".

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 11:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
I can contemplate a shift to a more informal relationship after Bunter retires, say at 70-ish, to a cottage or a flat of his own at Duke’s Denver. But it needs the change in the power relationship first.


Yes! Exactly! All this pretending the power relationship doesn't exist doesn't get anyone anywhere. The problem isn't that Peter doesn't call Bunter Mervyn, it's that he pays the man to do all the things he doesn't want to have to do for himself. You don't ask friends to clean up after you and cook your meals (or if you do, they don't stay friends for long). No amount of abandoning the honorifics is going to change the fact that their relationship is based on a fundamental economic and social inequality. As you say, the very fact that there's more going on beneath the surface makes patrolling the boundaries essential.

I mean, I would happily read fic in which the revolution comes and Bunter is made Chairman of The People's Committee For Dismantling the Class System and he and Peter find their respective social statuses reversed, or evened out, or whatever, but I don't want to read a story in which the implications of the class system are fudged by everyone pretending there isn't any real difference between the two of them, while all the time secretly thinking it's so awful to be a servant that they'd better behave as if Bunter wasn't one.

I don't feel sorry for Gerald. I think DLS (and JPW, come to that) let him off altogether too lightly. They cut him slack that they don't cut Helen (who at least doesn't screw around), and are far too willing to take his fondness for Peter (which he almost never acts upon) as indicative of being fundamentally decent and worthy of forgiveness for being an over-privileged ass and parasite. But I do think he deserved a bit more screen time - maybe even an actual death scene - rather than being offed abruptly solely to make Peter Duke.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Oh, my sympathy is entirely for his reduction to Lord Gerald Plot-Function, butchered to make a crap fanfic. I feel similar sympathy for Bredon Hall, though that has less personality. Gerald is undoubtedly a selfish pig and socially rather behind the times even for a member of the House of Lords, but when it comes to doing his job, he’s no more of a dinosaur than Peter is. The unfortunate BH tenant farmer is, after all, foreclosed upon on Peter’s advice. I don't know if you saw the post on [livejournal.com profile] coughingbear's LJ commenting on the list and Peter's new middle-classness, but there are some good points about his own desire to have his status acknowledged, with "putting people at their ease" as an act of patronage in itself.

Actually, DLS’s treatment of Gerald (and to some extent JPW's of Peter) reminds me rather of the portrayal of the Earl in Downton Abbey, being fundamentally the idealised Old Tory – yes, he’s a bit out of touch in some ways, but ultimately he’s got the right ideas and will look after everyone, just as long as they accept their rules and don’t get above themselves. An attitude of which both DLS and Julian Fellowes naturally approve. DLS’s Helen I don’t mind – she’s fundamentally a comic character, but she’s not significantly worse than other awkward characters. Walsh’s, though, is a completely malign bitch (a phenomenon also evident on the List where people proclaim on no evidence whatsoever that she doesn’t love her children at all) in a way that just feels like personal viciousness on the part of the author.

The character I want to see after the Revolution is Jeeves - after all, the only reason there hasn't been one is that Jeeves prefers the easy life to being Dictator.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 01:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
I hadn't seen this discussion, so thanks for the pointer. The bit about the putting people at their ease reminded me of the woman who was the Senior Modern Languages Tutor when I first came to Oxford. She was a charming, soft-spoken, white-haired Welshwoman, who said of one the public school admissions applicants, "She bounced into the room and put me at my ease," which made me laugh, because it caught exactly that boundless self-assurance that some public schools instil (whilst illustrating that the person who does the putting-at-ease is normally the person with the power in an unequal relationship.)

Gerald is definitely Old Tory, you've hit the nail on the head there. And while DLS clearly dislikes Helen, she imagines her vividly enough that you catch glimpses of the unhappy person underneath the nastiness - plus, of course, she's very entertainingly nasty. Neither of which can be said of JPW's Helen, who is a hatchet job. But then none of her versions of the characters are entertaining. I have huge sympathy with the person on the list whose husband found the book too dull to get through.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-29 11:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I'm still boggling at the bounding student anecdote. I think I shall just have to be pleased that the tutor saw through it.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-02 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clanwilliam.livejournal.com
Oh my goodness, your tutor taught Mary-Lou Trelawney!

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 01:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antisoppist.livejournal.com
I hope Jeeves manages to bash Roderick Spode on the head before the Revolution comes.

I have been trying to avoid ATT by sticking my fingers in my ears and going la la la but I do like Harriet's reflections on the loss of "my lady".

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 01:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
azdak said: You don't ask friends to clean up after you and cook your meals (or if you do, they don't stay friends for long).

In a nutshell, that's why they didn't let the cleaners-up and cookers divorce their husbands.

If it's really necessary to call His Grace something other than His Grace (Bunter seems able to cope with "my lord"--you'd DIE if you took a drink every time he says that in "Unnatural Death") there's always "Mr. Palliser" in terms of people who don't think they want to be Dukes.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 03:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
And if you couldn't be divorced, you'd be sacked without references.

you'd DIE if you took a drink every time he says that in "Unnatural Death"

The Wimseyverse drinking game would have to involve some sort of cribbage board so you only had to drink on every fifth "my lord". But I'm sure in the non-JPW verse it would take Bunter about five minutes to learn to inject "your grace" with the subtle inflections already applied in "my lord" from "if you insist, you moron" to "your arse looks very fine in those pyjamas".

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
The "Oh, lor'" is silent...

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antisoppist.livejournal.com
I don't think that the later Peter, as drawn by DLS, would actually have had any strong objection to assuming the dukedom

Particularly given that in GN he tells St George he might actually be better at it than St George would. And St George's use of it as a threat is only "no more Vienese singers", not that it would be the end of the world. I can see a bit of responsibility angst though, and survivor guilt maybe, but I don't know how Gerald gets bumped off. Nor do I know how disastrous JPW thinks getting the Dukedom is. I shouldn't be commenting at all really.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
"no more Vienese singers"

It has suddenly struck me that if St. George really believes this, he must have a rather rose-coloured view of his own father. Perhaps post-Clouds he got more discreet.

Gerald gets bumped off by a heart attack in the burning down of Bredon Hall (don't worry about spoilers, the dramatic effect is zero). Peter and Harriet naturally rise to the occasion, despite doing the tax calculations on the back of an envelope, and turning the old house into a barn conversion.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 03:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
Isn't the actual threat "no more spectacular Viennese singers"? In which case he might simply think that trading down to much less specatacular farmers' wives would be a lot less fun (Or am I confusing the wording with the time he bumps into Harriet?)

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antisoppist.livejournal.com
I apologise to Vienna for my inability to spell Viennese.

Now I have looked it up, it is when he bumps into Harriet and the first thing St George threatens to land Uncle Peter with by killing himself is "The balm, the sceptre and the ball. Four rows of moth-eaten ermine. To say nothing of that dashed great barracks down at Denver eating its mouldy head off". Then he says if Peter is going to risk his life chasing criminals, he'll have to get married "No more bachelor freedom with old Bunter in a Picadilly flat. And no more spectacular Viennese singers. So you see, it's as much as his life's worth to let anything happen to me."

It's not a very coherent argument and it seems to be the marriage for the sake of the succession that would stop the spectacular mistresses, rather than the Dukedom as such.

So yes, are we supposed to assume St George know about his uncle's women and not his father's? Or does the "I was a kid at school" imply that Viennese singers were much discussed at Eton?

Lend Me a Tenor

Date: 2011-01-28 05:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
No more bachelor freedom with old Bunter in a Picadilly flat. And no more spectacular Viennese singers.

I believe this also admits of the interpretation, "No more singers, because Bunter put his foot down, after all, it's his flat too."

Re: Lend Me a Tenor

Date: 2011-01-28 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
The management complained about the noise.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
It is "spectacular Viennese singers" and it's the time he bumps into Harriet. Peter's reply to his nephew's letter doesn't refer to this side, so we don't know if he was bright enough not to mention it, or Peter managed not to respond to provocation.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
Your *cat* would be better at it than St. George, who after generations of privilege is completely useless at anything except leading his men into battle so they can all get killed.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
That's a bit harsh. If he could be made to stand still long enough, he would also make a very good artist's model. And he's probably quite good at leading people astray, too.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-01-28 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
The woman in "Copper Fingers" made a pretty good sofa, but that's not enough to build a social system on.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-03 09:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophiaiswisdom.livejournal.com
This is very good!

I won't read JPW's books because Jerry doesn't die. No, sir!

(no subject)

Date: 2011-02-03 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
It's only in TAE that he is dead. He is alive in the other two. Or, according to a long-ago fic I read on the Yahoo list, he faked his own death, ran away to Argentina, and came back to visit incognito after Peter's death, whereupon he had an affair with Harriet. It was a lot for a short fic!

Help Me Obi-Wan Flist

Date: 2011-02-03 03:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
OT, but perhaps sparing Wimseydom some future embarrassment (on my behalf): is Barbara's maiden surname ever revealed, and is she a plain Miss, an Hon or a Lady?

Re: Help Me Obi-Wan Flist

Date: 2011-02-03 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Barbara is always the mysterious Barbara. No surname, no indication of title, beyond the fact that they're considered a perfect match, except by those in the know re. their personalities.

Re: Help Me Obi-Wan Flist

Date: 2011-02-03 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
Thank you!

The night before last I was sleep-writing the Downton Abbey story, so after I woke I pounded out 500 words--I think it'll be about 5,000 when it's done.

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