nineveh_uk: Cover illustration for "Strong Poison" in pulp fiction style with vampish Harriet. (Strong Poison)
[personal profile] nineveh_uk
I have failed shamefully to review the latest Jill Paton-Walsh Wimsey pastiche, The Late Scholar. Ironically, this failure is due not to its being bad, because ranting*is easy, but because it was OK, and OK is uninspiring, especially from the point of view of a not particularly brilliant book reviewer.

So, The Late Scholar. This is the first of JPW’s Wimsey sequels that doesn’t draw at all on manuscript/apocryphal DLS material, and I think it’s the better for it. In the case of Thrones, Dominations, the 30s setting and initial DLS element is a good portion of the pain: it is impossible to read it without thinking how much better it could be. In the second and third books, folding DLS into the plot just makes things feel constrained, as the plot fits around the fragments rather than cutting loose on its own. Here at least there is no constraint but that brought by JPW herself – present enough, but at least not a double whammy.

The plot is relatively simple. It turns out that along with the Dukedom, Peter has inherited the visitorship** of an Oxford college. You’d have thought that his elder brother might have mentioned this over the years, but never mind. The college is broke, and wants to sell a potentially valuable manuscript to get itself out of trouble. Other people don’t want to sell the MS, and people start dropping dead. So Peter steps in to try and sort out the dispute and the, as it turns out, murder.

I can’t say that I cared terribly about the plot. One perennial problem with JPW is that she has missed the fact that DLS’s novels are always about something other than murder***. This isn’t, no more than such period pieces as Innes’ Death at the President’s Lodgings. On the other hand, in the mid-fifties we are just about into the period JPW knows herself, and while I’m not quite convinced by the setting, it is at least handled with greatest assurance and thus evenness, than previous books. As a whodunit its OK. I’ve read a lot worse. I don’t particularly care for the solution, I’m not sure that it plays fair (I haven’t actually read a lot of whodunit), but it carries Peter and Harriet’s story along. This is a Peter who seems to have accepted being a Duke and Harriet the Duke’s wife (oh, there’s lots of references to her as a writer, but we don’t see much of it – in DLS’s letters, meanwhile, Harriet’s earnings are the ones supporting the estate at this point). They still have plenty of sex, and JPW is keen we should know this. The OOC noblesse oblige continues – it isn’t that Peter doesn’t help important witnesses, but canon Peter puts them up in hotels or takes them to the shops, he doesn’t billet them on his friends. There are a few compulsory cameos. Oxford is, despite all, sacred, although it is admitted one might have other gods ****.

Ultimately, this is a perfectly decent tribute/pastiche that will satisfy many casual readers of Sayers and perhaps attract some new ones. It is considerably better than most faux Golden Age mystery novels, and indeed than a lot of the second tier original ones. It has a reasonably credible setting, Peter and Harriet, and a plot. But in the end I’m just not really bothered about it. I don’t feel it does anything new, nor that it has anything in particular to say. And Dorothy L Sayers always had something to say.

*And ranting fic.

**Sort of arbitration role.

***Even Five Red Herrings, just.

****I can sympathise with the Eldest Son feeling thick compared to his parents, and wanting to do agriculture properly – except that surely one goes to Cirencester – but I’d have thought that Peter would have been right behind it, preferring dedication to the cause to pissing about at Christ Church doing whatever the 1950s Oxford equivalent of Land Economy was in order to join the rowing team.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-13 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bookwormsarah.livejournal.com
You mean there is somewhere other than Harper Adams for agriculture? I'm stunned. Has the Archers been lying to me for decades?

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-13 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
The Archers aren't posh enough for what these days appears to be called the Royal Agricultural University: http://www.rau.ac.uk/

Also they chucked Helen out for being completely crackers.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 09:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antisoppist.livejournal.com
Yes, Cirencester is where the posh ones go for estate management. The nearer option for East Anglia would have been Writtle* (Chelmsford) where my father and sisters went, or there's Wye, where my aunt did agriculture in the 1950s.

*which I think Sayers has a Marquess or something of at some point

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 10:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sam-t.livejournal.com
How long has Otley college been going? Although that's presumably one local agricultural college among many and not sufficiently posh? All I know is they make decent goat's cheese, or they did, but I'm not sure that's a vote one way or the other exactly...

*Pause for googling, since the website was unhelpful*

Ah, it apparently grew out of the Felix Thornley Cobbold Small Holdings and Allotments Trust (est. 1910) but the education bit only got going in the 60s.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
This comment baffled me for a moment until I realised that there is another Otley...

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 01:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sam-t.livejournal.com
Oh yes, not the one near Ilkley. I always forget that's there until I nearly drive through it.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Not an exciting new 1955 course at the University of Reading, then?

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs-redboots.livejournal.com
Not just the posh ones these days - my nephew went there (his father's Alma Mater, Seal Hayne, no longer exists). He (nephew) says it's a drinking college with an agriculture problem!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 09:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlered2.livejournal.com
A friend's dad works at Harper Adams, having got the job about a year ago. Said friend was mocking the fact that he's in Shropshire at somewhere obscure, and I felt the need to say that I had thought Harper Adams was really famous for agriculture stuff. Then I had to admit that it was The Archers that had led me to believe that, rather than people in real life.
Edited Date: 2014-02-14 09:57 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antisoppist.livejournal.com
We had a farm student from Harper Adams once. She caused confusion on her first morning by calling a pitchfork a "pikle". Perhpas if everyone just goes to their nearest one and stays there, it avoids having to re-learn regional agricultural terminology.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-13 11:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madamedarque.livejournal.com
They still have plenty of sex, and JPW is keen we should know this.

I am quite convinced that her smut isn't as good as half the fic on AO3, though.

oh, there’s lots of references to her as a writer, but we don’t see much of it – in DLS’s letters, meanwhile, Harriet’s earnings are the ones supporting the estate at this point

I am glad that this book was less execrable than the others (and I agree that it's probably a blessing that JPW isn't wantonly appropriating the letters/apocrypha at this point), but that is still...fairly irritating? I always felt that she just didn't get Harriet, and well, this is one more indication.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 10:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Some bold soul on AO3 this week has actually dared to write Peter/Harriet wedding night. Though as fanfic goes, it is still barely into smut territory.

I don't think JPW gets Harriet, either (or Peter or Bunter come to that). Her Harriet is always, well, just a little bit dull. Canon Harriet slacks off her writing and does the crossword or reads bad Ruritanian novels, and goes to popular revue performances with men 20 year old men. JPW's Harriet is far too worthy for that.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madamedarque.livejournal.com
Oooh, thank you for the tip-off! I have always heartily desired wedding night fic but never thought anyone would dare traverse those sacred boundaries.

JPW...does not get anyone, we can presume.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I have great admiration for the bold ficcer willing to tread there!

I enjoyed her Knowedge of Angels a lot, but that's an exception!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-15 09:42 am (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Dark haired woman, pen and ink drawing with watercolour.  Looks a bit like Harriet Vane. (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I read some of her children's/ YA stuff when I was a child, but I find that I just don't remember very much about it, which I suspect means that it was entertaining enough to pass the time, but not much more.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 07:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azdak.livejournal.com
Thank you for that review. It's encouraging to know that it's better than the execrable Attenbury Emeralds (and I don't find it particularly hard to believe that Gerald never talked shop with Peter out of fear that Peter might talk shop back at him and then Helen would have fits). I could certainly do without the sex, though. At their age, and after three children, they ought to be "toddling along quite nicely", no need to make a fuss, rather than wallowing in the glories of the matrimonial bed (they can do it all right, but the narrator shouldn't keep banging (so to speak) on about it). considerably better than most faux Golden Age mystery novels is high praise indeed compared with Emeralds, and Oxford as a setting has a timelessness about it that presumably avoids the difficulties of the 1950s being a godawful era to set an LPW mystery in. Next time I'm in dire need of reading matter, I shall bear this one in mind!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Indeed. Let them Do It. Mention that they Do It. But Peter and Harriet didn’t interrupt an investigation to have mad passionate sex on their honeymoon, so I don’t feel the need for it to happen in a book nearly 20 years later just so that we know they’re still Mad For Each Other.

There are still the JPW irritations. The minor canon inaccuracies that grate on me*, the tedious “they’re just like us really” moments. But as a book it's pretty well put together, not great art, but a hell of a lot better than TAE and a pleasant enough read for what it is even if it's no Gaudy Night.

*And one that’s actually really important to the plot and wrong and thought it could be OK for it to be wrong, it needs to have attention drawn to the wrongness in order not to be JPW’s wrongness.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Quite! A dash of dialogue, a mention of a feeling, should be all you need.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 09:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] antisoppist.livejournal.com
As I suspected, it sounds as though she's relieved that this time she can wangle it so she stays within her comfort zone and write another Imogen Quy Oxford college whodunnit but with the names changed. I quite like them and I read them if they turn up in the library but they aren't Sayers.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 10:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I think that's a pretty good summary of it, actually!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 01:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bsg-aussiegirl.livejournal.com
I had not rushed to buy this book, after her last awful attempt. I'm seriously shocked by your comment about the sex! For JPW to even mention sex is a surprise. I think this was one of the major problems with her other books. She had Peter away for huge periods (I think because she can't write him very well, she never has his voice or mannerisms right for me) and when he came home there was hardly a mention of a kiss, let alone secksy times, between him and Harriet. DS's Peter and Harriet were extremely sexy, full of UST and burning sizzling chemistry. I always pictured JPW as a little old prudish church-going lady who couldn't bring herself to write such things.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 06:36 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Cartoon of Pope Gregory and two slave children.  Caption flashes"Non Angli sed Angeli" and "Not angels but Anglicans." (Anglicans not angels)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I have no idea what JPW's religious views, and I'm not particularly interested in them,* but given that Sayers was a church-going lady, I don't think that is the primary problem.


*Although whatever they are, I'm not convinced she knows all that much about the Church of England, because I refuse to believe Anglo-Catholic!Bunter, fond though I am of both Anglo-Catholicism and Bunter.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
JPW comes from a Catholic background (incl. convent eduation), I don't know what her religious views are these days, but given the subjects of some of her adult fiction she is evidently interested in questions of faith, whatever her personal position (in Googling I've just found this review from the Tablet in 1986 of a novel about a Catholic girl going to Oxford in the 50s. The review - but perrhaps not the novel - is very entertaining! http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/article/19th-september-1986/6/wearing-out-the-confessional-door )

Anglo-Catholic Bunter annoys me because I feel it's there solely to set up Helen being annoyed. It's so unnecessary; Helen would be annoyed about anything Bunter did because she is annoyed by anything Peter does.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-15 09:38 am (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Dark haired woman, pen and ink drawing with watercolour.  Looks a bit like Harriet Vane. (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
Ah - that makes sense (and I take it back, it is at least slightly interesting!) A Catholic background and being interested in faith, but not a practicing Anglican would perhaps explain why she put the detail in, but in a hamfisted way.

Anglo-Catholic Bunter annoys me because I feel it's there solely to set up Helen being annoyed. It's so unnecessary

Indeed. All I can remember that's ever said about Bunter's religious position is when Peter and Miss Murchison are discussing the reliability of the housekeeper's evidence, and Peter says that Bunter, who has been buttering her up and accompanying her to chapel, believes her to be sincerely pious, honest and sensible. Miss Murchison wonders if he's being biased by her chapel-going; Peter says something like "If you'd seen Bunter in his off-duty hours, you'd realise the sight of a hymn-book is about as softening to his heart as whisky to an Anglo-Indian colonel's liver." It's an odd metaphor, but all the same, interpreting this to mean that Bunter spent his off-duty hours as at All Saint's Margaret Street or some similar spiky shrine strikes me as a bit of a stretch...

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 10:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sam-t.livejournal.com
Yes, I thought of that too (although I think it's the maid, not the housekeeper).

I'm not quite sure whether the metaphor is meant to imply that Bunter's been subjected to so many hymn books in the past that he's been put off religion for life (as with the whisky causing the damage to the liver in the first place) or whether it's just an emphatic way of saying that Bunter is more likely to be repelled than attracted by someone who is seriously religious. I hadn't interpreted it to mean 'Bunter regards congregational hymn-singing as dangerously low church' - it would be a really odd choice of metaphor for that.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 02:36 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Dark haired woman, pen and ink drawing with watercolour.  Looks a bit like Harriet Vane. (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
You may well be right about it being the maid; I don't have my books handy to check, but the metaphor sticks in the head!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
LJ eats the comment once again! (OK, I decided to interrupt to clean fluff from the laptop keyboard).

My own reading is that it's proof of Bunter 'on the job'. The hymn-book neither causes him to believe Hannah's word without question, nor to restrain himself from pushing the personal connection to worm any secret out of it. So when he says that Hannah is "a sincerely religious woman" (and chapel at that) we can genuinely believe that she's telling the truth, because Bunter isn't taking this at face value, he's tested it and found it to be the case.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 10:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Anyway, there's already Miss Climpson, we don't need Bunter to fill that niche. Clearly he should be evangelical!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-18 02:35 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
The mind boggles at evangelical!Bunter.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-18 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
It does rather. I can't tempt you to try and write it anyway?

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-18 04:08 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I shall have a think.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 08:09 pm (UTC)
ext_27872: (teapot)
From: [identity profile] el-staplador.livejournal.com
I read that one! There was a biologically improbably skinny-dipping scene which the reviewer has neglected to mention; apart from that, she's covered it.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I feel I should see if it is in the library store, but feel no inclination to pay for it!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-15 05:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bsg-aussiegirl.livejournal.com
It's just the stereotypical image I have for JPW! Not the fact that she's religious! (But I will say that a churchgoing woman of the 20s and a churchgoing woman of today are different imo.) She's purple rinse in my head. Prudish.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
My problem with JPW and writing sex is that she mentions it quite a bit, but it doesn't come off (as it were). The quotes are there, the passionate embraces are there, the "let us be overcome with desire right now" is there. But it never feels alive. There are too many quotes - DLS sprinkles them in the right places, she doesn't make entire dialogue out of it. She manages to be very effective in alluding to exactly what's going on without being more explicit that suits a mainstream novel of the type she's writing. I am not a fan of the "show don't tell" rule, but here it does apply - JPW tells us that passion is going on, but we don't see it, it never fizzes.

I totally agree that JPW just cannot do Peter. He never seems to come to life, it feels as if there's something a bit staid about all her characters.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs-redboots.livejournal.com
I actually liked her earlier ones better than this one (but why, oh why, does she persist in calling Duke's Denver "Bredon Hall"?). In this one, I felt there was no actual detecting happening - one criminal confessed, and the other was caught out! No "if you know how you know who", or anything.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I think she's right that Bredon Hall is the house* and Duke's Denver is the place. But generally Peter thinks of it as DD certainly.

I agree that the detecting is a trifle thin, but then I was comparing it to fiction of the period and an awful lot of it is like that. You hang around until something happens, which may be all your suspects getting murdered.


*It's Denver Castle in a very early edition of Whose Body, but that's one of the things that DLS herself changed.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 06:42 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Dark haired woman, pen and ink drawing with watercolour.  Looks a bit like Harriet Vane. (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
Hm, I might give it a try, then. But I'll probably nick my mum's copy!

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
I think that nicking your mum's copy is the way to go.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-14 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sonetka.livejournal.com
Hmm, sounds like a decent library pickup if I haven't got anything else to read at the moment. I really, really don't like YearningToBeMiddleClass!Peter, though. And as someone else said, after 20 years (or thereabouts) and three children, I think we can safely assume that they enjoy each others' company in all situations, with perhaps a quote or two for emphasis.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 10:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
It is exactly that sort of library read, possibly with a cold thrown into the mix as well.

It's the flag-waving that annoys me. Can't they just retire to bed with a significant line?

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-16 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wellinghall.livejournal.com
Off topic, but this exhibition may be of interest -

http://www.ashmolean.org/exhibitions/eyeoftheneedle/about/

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
It is indeed, thank you! I am very bad at looking up what is going on at the Ashmolean.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-17 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wellinghall.livejournal.com
It is often the way with the town one lives in.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-18 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ibmiller.livejournal.com
I am quite curious about Harriet's writings supporting the estate - sadly, none of my libraries have the later letters, so I've never been quite clear on what DLS was thinking about Harriet and Peter's later years. Did Sayers have Peter become Duke?

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-20 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nineveh-uk.livejournal.com
Sayers did have Peter become Duke - unofficially in her head, but also more officially in The Wimsey Family, which is a sort of jeu d'esprit genealogy compiled from letters she exchanged with CW Scott-Giles, who was official herald and so into that sort of thing professionally. It wasn't published until well after her death, but her correspondence with him is kind of her most formal writing on the subject. But I digress...

The letter I was referring to is in the third volume, Jan. 19149, and the relevant bit goes: "I have not heard from [Lord Peter Wimsey and his family] for some time, but I believe they are all doing quite well. Of course the family income from landed estate is considerably reduced; but as long as Harriet can turn out readable fiction they will probably still be paying super-tax".

In fairness to JPW, 1951 is before her books are set, and no doubt the Denver estate is less dependent for its income on housing that's been flattened in the war (not of course that Peter is anywhere near broke - just that immediately post-war he'd still be spending a lot of his income from housing on repairing/rebuilding it). Still, with death duties and post-war taxes etc. I bet that Harriet is providing a good deal of their spending money.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-02-20 09:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ibmiller.livejournal.com
Very cool! Thanks for the info! I think I have glanced through The Wimsey Family, but I was very young, and it was definitely over ten years ago. Sadly, my libraries only have the first volume of the letters, and I don't have the tin to fold over the other volumes.

The worldbuilding of the Wimsey novels is always a fun thing - it makes me sad that the Paton Walsh novels don't really do anything with it, just do pale imitations of things Sayers had already done.

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