Sharked up a list of lawless resolutes

[nineveh_uk]

bookwormsarah’s post about Hamlet inspired me to wonder – and surely I am not the first – whether there are Hamlet parallel plays in which Horatio is in league with young Fortinbras. Surely there must be. I have always had a soft spot for Fortinbras since doing Hamlet for A-level; I preferred his just getting on and doing things, though admittedly invading Denmark is perhaps easier politically than killing your own monarch. Perhaps that is Claudius’s mistake; he should have recalled Hamlet and sent him to invade Sweden – via Norway. (Honestly, who believes “we’re not invading you, we’re just passing through en route to Poland?”)

I am feeling irritated. The weather is grey and dreary and cold and it didn’t help that the central heating in the office wasn’t working for much of yesterday. Another department of work has had a year to ask us to check some data. So now we get it right at the start of term, with 3 ½ weeks in which to do it. So now I am going to say sod the ironing that I have not done, and go and watch an episode of Frasier with Lilith in it.

Comments

[bookwormsarah.livejournal.com]

“we’re not invading you, we’re just passing through en route to Poland?”

Substituting France for Poland and Belgium for Denmark, wasn't that the bulk of the Schlieffen Plan* during WWI?

*Last studied c1995 so I apologise now for any inaccuracies...

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

True. Perhaps it was a more convincing argument to Claudius without that in the back of his mind.

(Sorry for referring to a locked post, by the way, I'd assumed it was public and not double-checked.)

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Poor Poland, everyone invades them.

Bookwormsarah's post is, alas, locked, so I don't know if she's already said this, but personally I think Young Fortinbras is a militaristic git with far too much of an eye to the main chance, so if there are parallel plays where the two of them are in league, I hope Hamlet double crosses him.

[bookwormsarah.livejournal.com]

Sadly my (now public) post said nothing so thoughtful, more a bit of a rambling impression after seeing Hamlet for the first time...

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Thank you for unlocking it! I shall go over and read it now.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

But at least Fortinbras does something towards getting the main chance rather than hanging around for 5 acts angsting about it. I like the play, but a lot of time spent studying the soliloquies did incline me to wishing Hamlet would just get on with things. I wold be fine if he double-crossed Horatio and Fortinbras, though - at least he would be doing something.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

You have to blame Shakespeare for that, though - when Hamlet does go all action hero on the pirate ship it happens offstage. Shakespeare was clearly more interested in the angsting than the doing.

[helenajust.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid that I was always so distracted by Horatio that I didn't pay enough attention to Fortinbras! I can't see the post on Hamlet to which you refer.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

For some reason Horatio never really grabbed me as a character.

(Post now public - I forgot it wasn't.)

[white_hart]

I have always been a strong advocate of the Hamlet/Horatio OTP so can't possibly countenance Horatio betraying Hamlet with Young Fortinbras. Even if Young Fortinbras does look damn sexy in his fighting trousers.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

But maybe Horatio betrays Hamlet with Fortinbras because Hamlet dumped him to go to Wittenberg?

[antisoppist.livejournal.com]

When we did it for A-level I was Fortinbras* and was quite taken with being the one who turned up at the end and made everyone clean up all the mess.

*we had an English teacher who made us act it, which mostly meant we read it out loud but standing up and staring at our feet, and were horribly embarrassed when she died with much gurgling in the stationery cupboard while being Polonius. She also made us draw the plot of Persuasion. I plotted it as a graph.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

What were the axes? Perceived hope of getting Wentworth vs actual chance of getting him?

[antisoppist.livejournal.com]

The x axis was time and the y hope and evidence therefore, I think. It started out flat and low down and then all went a bit up and down spiky.

Two boys drew a cartoon strip.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

I love the idea of a Persuasian graph.

[bookwormsarah.livejournal.com]

The production I saw missed Fortinbras entirely! I think I'll visit my local library at lunchtime and see if I can find an annotated copy...

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

He's in the Branagh film, but then everything is in the Branagh film.

[heliopausa.livejournal.com]

I think the Fortinbras bit -- the threatened invasion at the beginning, not just the arrival at the end -- makes the play about more than Hamlet's angst. The politics is why Ophelia is no match for Hamlet, as Laertes tells her. And it's occurred to me (just now) to wonder if the need for a better king than Hamlet Snr wasn't part of the grounds for the murder. A palace coup, nothing personal, in the face of external threat that the then leader just wasn't good enough to handle? After all, Hamlet's father is expiating great wrongs in Purgatory, and his advice isn't much use to Hamlet (or to the State of Denmark, come to that).

[bookwormsarah.livejournal.com]

Without the politicking it came across as Laertes showing concern for his sister because he wasn't convinced she could be happy with Hamlet, who wouldn't treat her well. She was played as a fresh young thing, trusting and pushed and pulled by the political whims of her mother Polonia (gender swapping creates confusion in post-play discussion). The scene when Hamlet taunts her was increasingly distressing as she is first confused and then horrified by what he is saying. I understand that the order was played with slightly, which may be promoting this particular view...

Polonia was very well played - a practical woman who tries to move things along and control the future (failing fairly completely none the less). I was quite disappointed when she was killed. I have just downloaded the full play onto my ereader and I look forward to finding out what I missed.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

It is Fortinbras's "There's a problem, let's get it sorted" that endears him to me in the context of the play, whether that problem is the corpses all over the throne room or the loss of bits of territory. How unlike Denmark's own dear prince.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Fortunately, while our English teachers made us read stuff out (at least, Hamlet and Emma) they didn't make us act, so that was OK. Though it was generally accepted that Miss Bates should be 'acted' in terms of read as quickly as possible in one breath and with GREAT variation in EMPHASIS.