nineveh_uk | Petition!*

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I think it unlikely that there is anyone on my flist who is interested in, and eligible for, signing the Revoke Article 50 petition who hasn't done so, but in case there is, the link is here. At the time of posting it is on 4,834,047 signatures.

No, government policy isn't going to be dictated by a petition, nor should it be, but at the moment government policy (such as there is any) is being dictated by an extremist response to a fraudulent referendum, and anything that provides a visible counter-narrative to the line that a catastrophic Brexit is 'the will of the people' is a good thing.

You can check the current tally of signatures here.

*Great. Now I'm hearing that to the tune of "Tradition" from Fiddler on the Roof.

Crossposts: https://nineveh-uk.livejournal.com/437919.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

azdak

Over 5.6 million now. And the march did a lot better than Farage's pathetic 100 Brexit Betrayal marchers, too :-)

From:

nineveh_uk

Ah, but Farage's 100 are true blue Englishmen whose opinions counts! Whereas every single person who has signed the petition is a Russian bot, obviously.

From:

azdak

The main accusation appears to be that they are all from remain-voting constituencies, so their opinions don't count. I did see a few people from leave-voting constituencies but they probably voted remain in the referendum, so obviously their opinions don't count either.

In fairness to those Leave voters who aren't bigots or in the Tory cabinet, the lack of consultancy must be almost as infuriating to them as it it to me. Not once has the government ever asked any voter what they want out of Brexit/Remain and what price they would be willing to achieve that goal. Everything is being decided behind closed doors by men in suits and if I had been on the winning side, I would share the conviction that I was being cheated out of what had been promised.

From:

nineveh_uk

May really has done an impressive job of pissing off everybody. She seems totally incapable of consulting people for any opinions but her own. I don't believe that there wasn't some sort of Brexit that she couldn't have got through parliament after the referendum (though perhaps not after the general election) had she taken a different approach, but her hardline approach could never work.

I think it's true that no Brexit could have delivered what was wanted, because it was never defined, and in that sense "Brexit means Brexit" is actually true - Brexit is and always has been a nebulous platform meaning different things to different people. And of course the winning side is being cheated out of what was promised, though I think many Leavers did completely fail in their own responsibility to identify that what was promised is impossible. My Brexiteer cousin is a middle-class, comfortably off tax inspector who has been politically active in other areas, so she at least knew damn well that the £350 million a week for the NHS wasn't a real promise.

From:

azdak

I'm amazed at how quickly the EU went from being a complete non-issue for the majority of the population to a central aspect of English identity politics. It just goes to show how terrifyingly successful populism can be - tell people that some outsider is doing them down, and that things would be better without them, and it doesn't matter how little evidence you have to back it up, there'll be people who seize on it and turn into raving paranoiacs. May basically did the same as Corbyn with her "Brexit means Brexit" - she sat on the fence for as long as humanly possible because she knew damn well that she wasn't going to be able to deliver any unicorns. Both Labour and the Tories are guilty of playing Schrödinger's Brexit, and while the Tories are infinitely more culpable, the sense of betrayal is naturally greater when it's your own side that act as enablers.

I see that the petition is now down to 5.8 million. Presumably they cleaned out a whole bunch of invalid signatures (doubtless from disgruntled Leavers hoping to discredit the whole thing - paranoid? Moi?)

From:

nineveh_uk

Yes, it really is a case study in populism. The couple in the supermarket I witnessed gleefully muttering "Send 'em packing. We're going to send 'em packing" near a Chinese shopper and his daughter no doubt already thought that would be a good thing, but the job of the government is not to say that it is going to do it, whilst carefully ignoring all the things that actually make their lives more difficult.

It would probably suit politicians to play at Brexit forever as long as they never actually had to make a final choice, because goodness knows it is distracting from absolutely everything else while ensuring that the blame is nicely spread around. As for Corbyn, I am beyond furious with him. I'm not sure whether he is ideologically pro-Brexit or indifferent and massively incompetent. Wait, why decide? Any halfway decent Labour leader should was not pro-Brexit and was committed to the well-being of the country over [his vision of] the party would have done more in the referendum in the first place, let alone since. But as far as I can tell, not a single party leader has actually done more than think about their own party for the next 5 minutes. Even the bloody LibDems, whose raison d'etre is practically to be pro-EU, have Cable blathering around about the need to 'understand' while Rees Mogg drives us off a cliff. But Schrödinger's Brexit is perfect when you don't want to take responsibility, and if there is one thing that Corbyn clearly has it is total inability to take responsibility (I think May would actually like to, because she sees herself as some sort of Messiah who can "deliver Brexit" and unite the populace, but she has no clue that taking responsibility demands more than telling people to do what you say). In short AAARRRGHH!!!!!

From:

azdak

My God, that couple in the supermarket! There has to be a special circle of hell for people like that.
I worry that Corbyn's attempts to sit on the fence for as long as possible means that come a GE, Labour is not a credible anti-Brexit party. And since the Lib Dems lost all their credibility when they became the Tories' poodle (in this respect, I have to say hats off to the DUP, loathsome as they are - they really showed how to hold a government by the balls while never giving up on their own (revolting) principles) - who do the Remainers vote for? A vote for Labour risks being interpreted as a vote for a pro-Brexit party,

From:

nineveh_uk

I was so struck for a moment that I actually thought I'd heard wrong until they repeated it.

I share your fears re. Corbyn. Labour isn't a credible anti-Brexit party at the moment, and come a GE fence-sitting is no longer going to be an option. I suspect that late and reluctant support for a second referendum will be the answer, but it's not an impressive one. I share your opinion of the DUP - they're doing their job, in a way, to represent their voters. And they are showing how much Clegg and co. made an active and ongoing to choice to renege on their manifesto pledges.

Meanwhie May now wants MPs to vote for her deal, a feature of which is that many key things still have to be negotiated, with no idea of who is going to be doing that negotiating, but it won't be her? Oh yes, I'm sure the prospect of e.g. Boris Johnson as PM is really going to encourage non-Brexiteer waverers.